Not Your Everyday Kid
I can’t remember wanting to be anything other than a business owner. My grandmother owned two businesses, a daycare center and a senior care facility. Her work ethic never ceased to amaze me. When I was 14, I managed the afterschool and summer camp programs at the daycare.
Initially, the kids didn’t take me seriously because I was basically the same age. They saw me as a peer rather than an authority figure. I had to learn how to earn their respect and set boundaries early on or they would eat me alive. My grandmother's no-nonsense attitude guided me–which means she basically told me to figure it out. She helped me develop a strong work ethic and the belief that any problem could be solved with determination and hard work.
Working at the daycare also taught me about the realities of running a business. I watched her handle everyday challenges, her interactions with parents, and how she ran the place day to day. It was a hands-on education in business administration and people management long before I ever thought about running my own company.
I was already unusual having a job at 14, but the entrepreneurial fire was lit and I couldn’t wait to be my own boss. When I was 16, I found out you could order knockoff goods from China and started ordering cool clothes for myself. Then I thought I bet I could sell this stuff!
So I started selling “replica” sneakers on eBay. No one told me I was too young or that I had to have some kind of special license. No one even knew I was a teenager. I had a PayPal debit card and set up everything online. It just never occurred to anyone to ask questions. As far as anyone knew, I was just a normal kid.
I had a friend next door and we ran the business together. We would pack the sneakers up and my mom or his dad would take us to the post office because we couldn’t even drive yet. It was pretty funny, we’d show up with boxes of shoes, and nobody ever questioned what we were up to.
Every now and then my mom wondered why I had $500 checks arriving in the mail. I tried to explain what I was doing, but she just waved it off as “some computer thing” I was up to. My friends didn’t really get it either, even though I tried to show them they could be making fifty or sixty dollars a day just setting up websites. It’s probably a good thing that I wasn’t rolling in money, or people might have tried to stop me. But I definitely had more money than the average 16 year old, that’s for sure.
The best part was learning everything on my own. There weren’t many rules to follow and no one way to do things. I taught myself HTML and how to make better listings. I literally figured out how to run a business from my bedroom. The internet was a different place back then, and I loved the anonymity. It was all about making things work and solving problems as they came up.
This experience was a huge confidence booster and really set the stage for everything I’ve done since. It showed me that if you’re willing to learn and hustle, age and experience don’t really matter.
Exploring the Digital Marketing Jungle
After my sneaker business, I started exploring online businesses a little more seriously. I wanted to figure out what else I could do online. Back then, the big thing was making websites and putting Google AdSense on them. I remember reading about people making big money from Google and thinking, “I can do this!” So, I dove head first into creating content and figuring out SEO to drive traffic.
Back then, there weren’t many guides or courses, so it was all about trial and error. I spent a lot of time on forums, learning from others and figuring things out on my own. Nobody there ever asked how old I was. I learned a ton from those online communities and just kept experimenting.
When I finally started college, I was still running my online ventures. I’d be in class, but my mind was always on my next website or marketing strategy. Eventually, it became clear that this was more than a side hustle, it was my passion. I was making decent money and knew I didn’t want a typical 9-to-5 job.
So, I made the decision to drop out of college and go all-in on digital marketing. It was a big risk, but I felt confident in my ability to succeed. Every day there were new challenges. I loved the constant learning, and the freedom to live my life the way I wanted to. Plus, I could see the potential to really grow and make a name for myself in the industry.
Getting Serious
Everything changed when I dropped out of college in my senior year and I started taking things more seriously. Over time, I went from just being a marketer chasing the next affiliate offer to running an actual business with a team to manage.
I was offered a chance to partner with a larger company, move to Las Vegas, and build out a large team working on pay per call offers. While it was a great learning experience and I had a lot of fun; it was also clear that they made the rules. I didn’t have the freedom I craved. So, once again, I returned to being a solo affiliate focusing on media buying. It’s fair to say I finally realized I needed to work on my own terms, no matter what I was doing.
Then, about a year later, Rubicon Performance was born. It started as a side project, brokering deals and collaborating with media buyers I knew. I partnered with Michael Thompson, who managed operations while I focused on media buying. Starting Rubicon allowed me to do what I love without anyone else calling the shots. It’s less stressful and lets me operate with complete freedom.
Fast, Focused Growth
As CEO of Rubicon, I'm not doing any media buying. I used to love it, but now I really enjoy building and managing the company. I used to wonder why I was still doing media buying while others were building teams. The truth is, I enjoyed it. But now, I find that watching my ideas come to life through my team is incredibly rewarding.
We've grown fast, and I’ve brought in people I've known and trusted from the industry. Working with them has been fantastic because we all gel well together. It’s great seeing everyone thrive and knowing we’re doing better together than we would individually.
Rubicon has two divisions: our pay per call marketing team and a health insurance agency we started about a year ago. The marketing team has about eight people in the U.S. and four internationally. The insurance agency has grown to about 60 people. It’s been a wild ride, considering less than two years ago, I was just doing media buying on my own.
What convinced me to shift from being a solo operator to a CEO was seeing the opportunity to build something bigger than myself and to do it my way. Working under someone else was restrictive, but at Rubicon, I get to work with people I enjoy and respect. We have a great team, and it feels more like a group of friends working together than a traditional company.
Everyone on my team has grown and leveled up since joining Rubicon. I love teaching and mentoring, which probably comes from my background working with kids. I consciously try to help my team achieve their goals and grow as individuals. It’s a big part of why I enjoy my role so much.
My Biggest Mistake
When I look back on my career, one of my biggest mistakes was not pushing hard enough when things were going well. For instance, when I was building a call center years ago, I could have taken it more seriously and really hit the gas. I got complacent after seeing some early success, and thought the money would just keep rolling in. It doesn’t.
I remember running a successful mortgage affiliate campaign, making 10-20k revenue days, and just coasting. When the offer stopped converting and my accounts got banned, I went from making a lot to making absolutely nothing. That was a wake-up call. I realized I should have expanded the campaign to other platforms like Google while it was hot and maximized my ROI.
These experiences taught me to always push forward and never settle. Now, I share these lessons with my team, encouraging them to keep exploring new opportunities and never get too comfortable.
Even during tough times, I always believed there was a way to make money and succeed in this space. I never even considered going back to college or getting a "real job." The entrepreneurial spirit has always driven me to keep going, no matter the setbacks.
Affiliate Marketing vs. Pay Per Call
The biggest difference between regular affiliate marketing and pay per call is the emphasis on relationships. Pay per call forces you to build a real business. You have to develop strong relationships, do business development, and ensure compliance. It’s not just about making a profit on an ad campaign here and there; it’s about delivering value and maintaining good backend metrics for your partners over the long term.
My favorite technique for building these relationships is meeting people in person whenever possible. If that’s not feasible, I get them on a phone call. Emails are great for the initial hook, but real connections are made through conversations. Talking to someone directly makes it more human, and you can build a deeper relationship.
In this industry, it’s surprisingly easy to connect with high-level people. Conferences are fantastic for this. I’ve met many of my best contacts through online introductions followed by in-person meetings.
The trick is to give value first. I’ll share insights and help others, and eventually, that generosity comes back. One valuable connection often leads to many more. Whether relationships start online or in person, maintaining them through genuine interactions and good business practices is so important to your success.
Ringba Turns Publishers into Real Business Owners
Ringba has been a game-changer for Rubicon Performance. Their platform's ability to track calls like leads, using pixel fires and detailed metrics, was a revelation. Before that, I was tracking with single numbers for everything. The insight Ringba provided allowed me to optimize campaigns in ways I hadn’t ever imagined was possible.
Adam has also given me invaluable business advice. I remember meeting him and Harrison at a conference where they explained these advanced tracking capabilities. It was an epiphany, realizing I could track calls with the same precision as leads. This insight helped me dramatically increase revenue and efficiency.
Adam’s mentorship extended beyond just the technical aspects. He shared strategies on building and managing teams, which transformed how I approached scaling Rubicon. For example, he advised hiring experienced people from companies we admired. This strategy has been a game-changer, especially when we started our insurance agency. By bringing in managers from other top-performing companies, we quickly gained the knowledge and expertise needed to succeed.
Ringba isn’t just a software company; they’re committed to growing publishers into real business owners. They host workshops focusing on leadership and business growth, not just on running ads. This holistic approach has helped me develop as a leader and scale Rubicon into a robust business.
The numbers I'm most proud of aren’t just revenue figures but the number of people we've been able to employ. Seeing how our company has improved their lives is incredibly rewarding. One of our directors on the insurance side recently bought her first house. She asked me to sign her income verification documents, which was just an awesome moment. Another team member, who started as a busser in Las Vegas, now travels the world and lives by the beach in California. During the holidays, our insurance team made a thank you video, expressing their gratitude for the work environment we provide. It was touching to see how much being part of Rubicon meant to them. Knowing that our work positively impacts people’s lives is the most fulfilling part of what I do.
Getting Started in Pay Per call
For anyone thinking about getting started in pay per call, my biggest advice is to start slow and get feedback. Track your metrics and understand the backend numbers. Too many people jump in with a big budget trying to get quick wins without considering the advertiser's metrics, which can lead to short-term gains but long-term losses.
Pay per call is much more relationship-oriented compared to traditional affiliate marketing. You need to build strong relationships and show good metrics to attract more buyers. Instead of just focusing on immediate profits, work on creating sustainable, long-term partnerships.
With Ringba, you can manage multiple buyers at once, making it more efficient than traditional affiliate marketing. The platform basically allows you to auction off calls to the highest bidder, providing immediate feedback and detailed analytics, which helps you optimize your campaigns in real-time. This immediate feedback loop is invaluable, allowing you to see if your ads are resonating with your audience.
One of the best aspects of Ringba is its ability to handle multiple buyers simultaneously. This isn't possible with traditional affiliate marketing, where you're often locked into sending traffic to a single offer. With pay per call and Ringba, you can diversify your buyers, which mitigates risk and maximizes revenue.
The personal aspect of pay per call is what makes it scalable. Building relationships with multiple buyers ensures that if one isn't picking up all your calls, maybe due to state restrictions, hours, or agent availability, you have others who will. This creates a robust network that compounds over time, leading to more stability and higher earnings.
The Best Business in the World
The number one thing that’s gotten me where I am today is my resilience. I don’t let failures stop me. In this space, you only need one successful campaign to change everything. Even if you fail a million times, that one success can make it all worth it.
If I could give advice to my younger self, I’d say to take things more seriously and be smarter with money. It’s easy to blow through earnings quickly, but saving and investing wisely is crucial. Also, I’d encourage taking risks and seizing opportunities. Don’t let fear hold you back, whether it’s talking to someone important or attending a conference. There is so much opportunity in this amazing business.
Hands down, the best thing about pay per call is the people and experiences. I’ve made so many friends from different places, and it’s amazing to travel and meet them in person. This industry has allowed me to build connections I wouldn’t have made otherwise, and that’s incredibly rewarding.
I’m so grateful to all the people who helped me along my journey. Especially the ones who didn’t see a crazy kid faking his way in a grown up world, but an eager student of life who genuinely loves everything digital marketing.
The world is open to you, if you’re willing to do the work.